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华人基督教徒与中华文化

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发表于 14-9-2013 10:41 AM | 显示全部楼层
dupont378 发表于 14-9-2013 12:27 AM
LION,LEO,ROTARY ,MORMON,JEHOVAH WITNESS,ADVENTISH,
一般在民众眼里是搞慈善的,
但最高层是 犹 ...

很感谢你的信息

听说你对这组织蛮了解

不如我们来谈谈关于这个组织,好吗 ?

但这里是基督论坛

不如我们在 PM 谈

还是 。。。





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发表于 14-9-2013 09:18 PM | 显示全部楼层
zx987 发表于 14-9-2013 10:41 AM
很感谢你的信息

听说你对这组织蛮了解

信徒如果不能保持客观,
动不动告状,
我无所谓。。。
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发表于 15-9-2013 10:46 AM | 显示全部楼层
VATICAN 拜死人,有问题吗 ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ ... cation-Vatican.html

He is risen: Body of late Pope John Paul II
exhumed ahead of his beatification in the Vatican

By Daily Mail Reporter
UPDATED:16:57 GMT, 29 April 2011
Pope John Paul II's coffin was exhumed today ahead of his beatification as tens of thousands of people began arriving in Rome for one of the biggest events in the Catholic church since his funeral in 2005.

The coffin was removed from the crypts below St Peter's Basilica while top Vatican officials and some of the late pope's closest aides looked on and prayed.

Those present at the ceremony included Cardinal Stanislaw Dziwisz, his personal secretary and right-hand man for decades, and the Polish nuns who ran the papal household for 27 years.
The wooden coffin will be placed in front of the main altar of St Peter's Basilica. After Sunday's beatification mass it will remain in that spot and the basilica will remain open until all the expected one million visitors who want to view it have done so.


The body of the late Pope John Paul II is exhumed from the crypt of
St Peter's Basilica ahead of the deceased pontiff's beatification

Top Vatican officials and some of the late pope's closest aides
look on and pray over his coffin

It will then be moved to a new crypt under an altar in a side chapel near Michelangelo's statue of the Pieta.The marble slab that covered his first burial place will be sent to Poland.

Huge posters of John Paul, who died in 2005, hang across Rome ahead of the ceremony - expected to be attended by a million pilgrims - which will put him on the path to sainthood.
As the Vatican prepares to move the latepontiff one step closer to sainthood this Sunday, Rome has been caught up with beatification fever.

Workers carry the coffin of the late Pope John Paul II from the crypt of St Peter's basilica at The Vatican during a ceremony today

The city is festooned with posters of the pope on buses and hanging from lampposts as the city where he was bishop for 27 years awaits one of the largest crowds since his funeral in 2005, when millions came to pay tribute.

Large television towers are being erected along Via Della Conciliazione, the boulevard leading from the Tiber to the Vatican.

In his home country of Poland, thousands of pilgrims are boarding buses and trains for the roughly 30-hour journey to Rome for the ceremony, while many more are expected to fill squares in Warsaw, Krakow and his hometown of Wadowice to follow it on large video screens.


Pilgrims stand in front of a giant image of Pope John Paul II hanging in
St. Peter's Square in the Vatican today

The atmosphere of celebration contrasts sharply with the deep sense of mourning after John Paul died in 2005.

At the time, black ribbons and packed churches were expressions of the widespread grief felt at the country's loss of its most respected moral authority and a figure credited with helping end communism.
Now many repeat a common refrain: that the beatification is largely a formality because they already consider their native son the holiest of men.
Beatification is the last formal step before possible sainthood, and many in Poland hope that the fast beatification will be followed by a speedy canonisation as well.





Five years must pass after a person dies before the procedure for sainthood can even begin, but Pope Benedict (right) put John Paul on the fast track to sainthood in May 2005, just two months after his predecessor died

Pope John Paul II waves to huge crowds in his hometown of Wadowice in 1979. Thousands are expected to fill squares in the Polish town to follow Sunday's beatification on large video screens

'For us, in fact, the Holy Father wasalready a saint during his lifetime, and after his death even more,' said Ewa Filipiak, the mayor of Wadowice, the small town in southern Poland where Karol Wojtyla, the future pope, was born.


Zimbabwean dictator Robert Mugabe
is among VIPs who will be attending the ceremony
More...
The saint and the sinner:
Tyrant Robert Mugabe invited to beatification ceremony for Pope John Paul II


WarsawArchbishop Kazimierz Nycz this week called the beatification a
historicmoment and predicted that the late pontiff will go down in history as
'Pope John Paul II the Great'.
Many Poles credit John Paul for his rolein inspiring Lech Walesa's Solidarity movement, a catalyst in the toppling of communism in Poland.
His life, which was shaped by the suffering of World War II and the communist decades, also make him a 'person with whom Poles identify without hesitation,' said Marek Lasota, director of the Institute of National Remembrance, a state historical institute.

Yet in a sign of Poland's increasing secularisation, the numbers making the trip to Rome are expected to be in the tens of thousands - far less than the hundreds of thousands at his funeral.

News of the beatification has also been overshadowed in recent days by the Royal Wedding in this country.

The ceremony has been marred by news that Robert Mugabe is among VIPs who will be attending.


The Zimbabwean dictator, who has been slammed by the international community for driving his country to poverty, is a Catholic and attended the funeral mass for John Paul in 2005.
Stanislaw Obirek, a former Jesuit priest and a critic of what he considers an 'authoritarian and oppressive' church, says there is a cult of John Paul II 'which is the result of the country's communist heritage because it is based on a cultof personality'.

Obirek,an anthropologist and expert on religion with Lodz University, predictsthat in time Poland will resemble Spain or Ireland, traditional Catholic nations with strong anti-clerical movements.


Yetfor now, he says, most critics of John Paul are still rarely willing toexpress their views publicly for fear of being marginalised socially.





本帖最后由 dupont377 于 15-9-2013 12:16 PM 编辑

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发表于 15-9-2013 01:55 PM | 显示全部楼层
dupont377 发表于 14-9-2013 09:18 PM
信徒如果不能保持客观,
动不动告状,
我无所谓。。。

好彩你来得急回复我

我很惊讶国际论坛那边那么多网友被禁,包括你

我还一直担心看到你被禁后,没法读到我给你的回复

想问问题外话,你们是在哪个论坛中招

我本身被扣分就很平常,被禁完全没试过

那个论坛的版主那么厉害




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发表于 15-9-2013 11:17 PM | 显示全部楼层
zx987 发表于 15-9-2013 01:55 PM
好彩你来得急回复我

我很惊讶国际论坛那边那么多网友被禁,包括你

我被禁过数十次,
教徒很卑鄙,
不能客观的看问题。。。
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发表于 30-3-2014 02:14 PM 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层

〖求證〗基督徒在清明節可以掃墓嗎?



有此一問是因為昨晚與一位親戚聊天,得知了一件令我意外的消息。
我这位亲戚不是基督徒,
但是她的父母卻是(新教),
她父亲已经过世几年,
因為清明節將至,
大家便聊起掃墓之事。

我老婆問起她有沒有掃墓?
她說她的父母是基督徒,
他們衹有萬聖節,
沒有清明節了。
她母親告訴她不用去掃墓。
我便有點驚訝的說道:
“基督徒也有很多保留著華人傳統在清明節時候去到墓前獻花之類的啊。。。”

她說她也有在母親面前提過,
但是她母親就是有反對的意思。

我便告訴她我家新生兒的保姆是天主教徒,
她有向我提過清明節時候她要回家鄉為先父點蠟燭之類的。。。

結果這位親戚便說出了讓我咋舌的一句話:
“我不知道哦,我媽就是很聽她教會牧師的話,他講不可以就是不可以羅。”
我腦海裡立刻一個問題,
[現在基督徒是在敬仰耶穌還是敬仰教會牧師?]

後來她又說:“老人家你就不要去跟她爭辯太多啦,隨她高興就好。”

我想了想這話也沒講錯,
然後弱弱的回道:
“也是pun,高興就好,高興就好。。。呵呵呵。。。”

点评

请过来这里继续讨论  发表于 12-4-2014 01:54 PM
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发表于 30-3-2014 06:03 PM | 显示全部楼层
牧师从来没有反对扫墓的事!

非华人基督徒一样有扫墓的习俗。

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发表于 30-3-2014 06:21 PM | 显示全部楼层
美丽旅程 发表于 30-3-2014 10:03 AM
牧师从来没有反对扫墓的事!

非华人基督徒一样有扫墓的习俗。


我知道。。。
會不會是"清明節"這段時間去掃墓比較敏感?
那位牧師怕人說教會閒話。。。

他可能怕聽到
「你們基督徒也不是一樣,他們教會的人也不是去祭祖。。。」 本帖最后由 kkyong85 于 31-3-2014 12:11 AM 编辑

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发表于 30-3-2014 09:51 PM | 显示全部楼层
kkyong85 发表于 30-3-2014 06:21 PM
我知道。。。
會不會是"清明節"只段時間去掃墓比較敏感?
那位牧師怕人說教會閒話。。。

我今天就与非基督徒亲属一起“行清”,扫5个的非基督徒墓;1个基督徒的墓;我们一行人有11个非基督徒,5个基督徒,一起进行,各人行本身的仪式,完了,就一起吃饭,

吃素的就吃素,其他的照吃肉和菜,大家聚在一个特大号的餐座之中用餐。完全没有什么敏感问题。

其实,牧师只是不鼓励基督徒在主日去祭祖,而是应该在其他日子祭祖罢了。

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发表于 30-3-2014 10:52 PM | 显示全部楼层
美丽旅程 发表于 30-3-2014 01:51 PM
我今天就与非基督徒亲属一起“行清”,扫5个的非基督徒墓;1个基督徒的墓;我们一行人有11个非基督徒,5个 ...
其实,牧师只是不鼓励基督徒在主日去祭祖,而是应该在其他日子祭祖罢了。

我的問題是:
1)為甚麼不鼓勵基督徒在主日去祭祖?
2)為甚麼應該在其他日子祭祖?
請問聖經經文哪一句講到這個?

我給你我的答案,
看看你覺得講得對嗎?
答案是:
因為我們已經跟其他人不一樣,
    所以我們不應該跟其他人做同樣的事情。
    因為我們已經跟其他人不一樣,
    所以我們最好不要像其他人一樣在主日跟去祭祖。
    因為我們要凸顯我們跟其他人不一樣,
    所以我們應該在其他日子去祭祖。」
本帖最后由 kkyong85 于 30-3-2014 02:56 PM 编辑

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发表于 30-3-2014 11:27 PM | 显示全部楼层
万圣节?
有多少新教徒纪念万圣节的?


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发表于 31-3-2014 10:06 AM | 显示全部楼层
基督教没有在庆祝万圣节,
甚至不鼓励庆祝万圣节,

所以很肯定地告诉你, 基督教可以清明扫墓,
用非宗教的观点是,
清明人比较多, 比较安全。
而且有一些会长草的地方,
清明通常会有管理员除掉长草, 路比较好走~

我们教会还有墓园崇拜。
就是在清明那天的凌晨6am.
先在墓园那边有个简单崇拜然后各自扫墓去。
(我教会有自属的墓园) 本帖最后由 tymothy 于 31-3-2014 10:11 AM 编辑

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发表于 31-3-2014 10:29 AM 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
tymothy 发表于 31-3-2014 02:06 AM
基督教没有在庆祝万圣节,
甚至不鼓励庆祝万圣节,


謝謝你。。。
我認識的一位基督徒也非常排斥萬聖節。

關於你知道為什麼某些教會牧師不鼓勵並阻止教眾在清明節掃墓嗎?

是否是像我上面講的那套原因?
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发表于 31-3-2014 10:31 AM | 显示全部楼层
kkyong85 发表于 30-3-2014 10:52 PM
我的問題是:
1)為甚麼不鼓勵基督徒在主日去祭祖?
2)為甚麼應該在其他日子祭祖?

主日是敬拜上帝的日子,上帝要人把上帝排在最重要的位置。
如果选在主日去祭祖,就不能同时到教会敬拜上帝了,
现在的人都是选择方便自己的时间去祭祖的,
因为,没有硬性规定要什么时候祭祖才是“最好”。

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发表于 31-3-2014 12:33 PM | 显示全部楼层
美丽旅程 发表于 31-3-2014 10:31 AM
主日是敬拜上帝的日子,上帝要人把上帝排在最重要的位置。
如果选在主日去祭祖,就不能同时到教会敬拜上 ...

不同意。
有些人扫墓后依然去崇拜。
也有人去崇拜后下午才去扫墓。
没有冲突~

本帖最后由 tymothy 于 31-3-2014 12:37 PM 编辑

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发表于 31-3-2014 12:37 PM | 显示全部楼层
kkyong85 发表于 31-3-2014 10:29 AM
謝謝你。。。
我認識的一位基督徒也非常排斥萬聖節。

totally No clue.....
你说的那套原因是什么?
怕清明扫墓被人讲??? 不是吧?
应该是清明不扫墓才可能被人讲吧. 不是吗?
被人讲的说法根本不成立~

本帖最后由 tymothy 于 31-3-2014 12:42 PM 编辑

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发表于 31-3-2014 12:59 PM | 显示全部楼层
tymothy 发表于 31-3-2014 12:33 PM
不同意。
有些人扫墓后依然去崇拜。
也有人去崇拜后下午才去扫墓。

这当然没有问题,
只是一般上下午烈日下才去扫墓不是人人愿意的。

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发表于 31-3-2014 01:46 PM 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
tymothy 发表于 31-3-2014 04:37 AM
totally No clue.....
你说的那套原因是什么?
怕清明扫墓被人讲??? 不是吧?

我講的一段原因是
“總之不要跟外邦人一樣就是了。。。”

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发表于 31-3-2014 01:57 PM 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
美丽旅程 发表于 31-3-2014 02:31 AM
主日是敬拜上帝的日子,上帝要人把上帝排在最重要的位置。
如果选在主日去祭祖,就不能同时到教会敬拜上 ...

你誤會了我的意思,
導致我也誤會了你的意思。
sorry。。。
離題了。。。

你離題的句子裏令我想起另外一件事,
就是我誤會你講的“主日”。
你說的主日是指“安息日”嗎?
安息日是星期六而不是星期日,
神要人在安息日這天去教會做崇拜。
但是現今的基督徒也是為了方便而選擇星期日到教堂做崇拜。。。
謝謝。。。
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发表于 31-3-2014 02:26 PM | 显示全部楼层
美丽旅程 发表于 31-3-2014 12:59 PM
这当然没有问题,
只是一般上下午烈日下才去扫墓不是人人愿意的。

下午傍晚, 没有烈日....
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