新加坡国会: F-35战斗机引入评估进入最后阶段!

Boilwater

台风还没买，竞敌就快出现了！
台风是RCS最低的4。5代，对上5代机，生存率比较高。

新加坡防长称F-35战斗机引入评估进入最后阶段


环球网报道：据法新社3月12日报道，新加坡政府网站12日称，新加坡防长黄永宏11日告诉国会，引入F-35联合攻击战斗机以取代F-15与F-16战斗机的评估程序已进入最后阶段。
　　“尽管F-35还处于研发阶段，我们仍然对此平台抱有兴趣，它可以满足我们将来的需要。F-35战斗机将成为下一代服役航母的急先锋。”黄永宏说。
　　此外，黄永宏还补充说，波音F-15战斗机“已临近使用期限”，洛克希德马丁F-16s战斗机也已步入“中年”。“从长远角度来说，新加坡空军已认定F-35为合适的战斗机型，以进一步现代化我们的战斗机舰队。目前我们正处于评估F-35的最后阶段。”黄永宏指出。
　　黄永宏还表示新加坡有意升级自己的潜艇舰队，以进一步提升军队作战能力。
　　-
　　美国F-35联合攻击战斗机(JSF)被定位为低成本的武器系统。这是因为F-22的成本太高，美国及其他国家均感到单纯依靠这样的高性能且高价格的战斗机组成战斗机部队，在财政上难以承受。因此美国各军种改变以往各自研制战斗机的传统，联合起来共同研制一种用途广泛、性能先进而价格可承受的低档战斗机——JSF。

http://mil.sohu.com/20130313/n368660311.shtml


Singapura timbang beli jet F-35

SINGAPURA - Pemerintah Singapura kini dalam peringkat akhir membuat penilaian ke atas pesawat pejuang F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) yang mungkin menggantikan beberapa pesawat pejuang F-15 dan F-16, kata Menteri Pertahanan, Ng Eng Hen dalam satu kenyataan semalam.

Eng Hen memberitahu Parlimen kelmarin bahawa Singapura juga berhasrat untuk menukar armada kapal selam negara tersebut sebagai sebahagian daripada langkah untuk meningkatkan kekuatan ketenteraannya yang kini memiliki kelengkapan yang terbaik di Asia Tenggara.

Pesawat pejuang F-35 ini bakal menjadi barisan depan untuk pesawat generasi baharu," tambahnya.

Ia dilengkapi satu enjin dan mempunyai kemampuan gagal dikesan radar.

Ia dimajukan menerusi program yang diketuai Amerika Syarikat dengan lapan buah negara.

Eng Hen juga menyatakan, pihaknya akan menggantikan kapal selam kelas Challenger yang diperoleh dari Sweden pada tahun 1990-an. - AFP



Artikel Penuh: http://www.kosmo.com.my/kosmo/co ... 6.htm#ixzz2NRC8quz6
Hakcipta terpelihara




GAMBAR fail menunjukkan dua buah pesawat F-35 terbang di Pangkalan Tentera Udara Edward, California, Amerika Syarikat. - Reuters

ivan6003

新加坡只会买美系战机
因为他们是美国的小弟
现在f35基本上是国际笑柄了

waja2000

ivan6003 发表于 14-3-2013 12:29 AM
新加坡只会买美系战机
因为他们是美国的小弟
现在f35基本上是国际笑柄了

大马买一个中队的J31放在新芙蓉的空军基地等他吧.....

ivan6003

waja2000 发表于 14-3-2013 09:16 AM
大马买一个中队的J31放在新芙蓉的空军基地等他吧.....

先不说中国肯不肯卖
肯卖大马也未必愿意买

waja2000

ivan6003 发表于 14-3-2013 11:19 AM
先不说中国肯不肯卖
肯卖大马也未必愿意买

J31本来的目的就是要出口... 所以肯定卖
就看大马愿意买没有....  

Boilwater

waja2000 发表于 14-3-2013 11:24 AM
J31本来的目的就是要出口... 所以肯定卖
就看大马愿意买没有....

就算大马肯买J31, 最快也要2025年之后才能型成战斗力。
必须先买RCS最低的4。5代来挡一挡F-35。
如果靠Rafale或SU30MKM那种高RCS的战机来挡F-35, 视距外就已经被击落了。
请问你同意我的说法吗？

Boilwater

ivan6003 发表于 14-3-2013 11:19 AM
先不说中国肯不肯卖
肯卖大马也未必愿意买

用阵风来顶F-35,必死无疑。
用台风还有些许可能性。
原因是2015年后装在我军可能要买的台风T3 AESA雷达比阵风刚出的AESA雷达强30%能较早发现敌机。而且台风被敌机雷达发现的时间较阵风来的晚。台风尽管不是真正的隐身战斗机，但RCS指标在1平方米以下，优于除F-22、F-35外的多数战斗机，在实战中具有很高生存能力。

Boilwater

F-35自卖自夸，结果被反驳。


There's No Way The F-35 Will Ever Match The Eurofighter In Aerial Combat

Feb. 13, 2013, 3:59 PM

In an interesting piece by Flight’s Dave Majumdar, Bill Flynn, Lockheed test pilot responsible for flight envelope expansion activities for the F-35, claimed that all three variants of the Joint Strike Fighter will have better kinematic performance than any fourth-generation fighter plane with combat payload, including the Eurofighter Typhoon (that during last year’s Red Flag Alaska achieved several simulated kills against the F-22 Raptor) and the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

“In terms of instantaneous and sustained turn rates and just about every other performance metric, the F-35 variants match or considerably exceed the capabilities of every fourth-generation fighter,” Flynn said.

According to the Lockheed pilot, (besides its stealthiness) the F-35 features better transonic acceleration and high AOA (angle-of-attack) flight performance than an armed Typhoon or Super Hornet.

As Majumdar says in his article, such claims are strongly disputed by other sources. Among them an experienced Eurofighter Typhoon industry test pilot, who tried to debunk all Flynn’s “theories” about the alleged superior F-35 performance.

Here’s what he wrote to The Aviationist:

No doubt the F-35 will be, when available, a very capable aircraft: its stealth design, extended range, internal carriage of stores and a variety of integrated sensors are definitely the ingredients for success in modern air-to-ground operations.

However, when time comes for air dominance, some other ingredients like thrust to weight ratio and wing loading tend to regulate the sky. And in that nothing comes close to a Typhoon, except an F-22 which has very similar values. The F-35 thrust to weight ratio is way lower and its energy-maneuverability diagrams match those of the F/A-18, which is an excellent result for a single engine aircraft loaded with several thousand pounds of fuel and significant armament.

But it also means that starting from medium altitude and above, there is no story with a similarly loaded Typhoon.

Dealing with the transonic acceleration:

Transonic acceleration is excellent in the F-35, as it is for the Typhoon and better than in an F/A-18 or F-16, but mainly due to its low drag characteristics than to its powerplant. That means that immediately after the transonic regime, the F-35 would stop accelerating and struggle forever to reach a non operationally suitable Mach 1.6.

The Typhoon will continue to accelerate supersonic with an impressive steady pull, giving more range to its BVR (Beyond Visual Range) armament.

For what concerns AOA:

Angle-of-attack is remarkably high in the F-35, as it is for all the twin tailed aircraft, but of course it can not be exploited in the supersonic regime, where the limiting load factor is achieved at low values of AoA.

Also in the subsonic regime, the angle-of-attack itself doesn’t mean that much, especially if past a modest 12° AoA you are literally going to fall of the sky! Excessive energy bleeding rates would operationally limit the F-35 well before its ultimate AoA is reached.

Eurofighter superb engine-airframe matching, in combination with it’s High Off-Bore-Sight armament supported by Helmet Cueing, has already and consistently proven winning against any agile fighter.

Last, the F-35 is capable of supersonic carriage of bombs in the bomb bay, but the fuel penalty becomes almost unaffordable, while delivery is limited to subsonic speeds by the armament itself as is for the Typhoon.

Concluding (highlight mine):

[...] it is in the facts that while the Typhoon can do most of the F-35 air-to-ground mission, vice versa the F-35 remains way far from a true swing role capability, and not even talking of regulating the skies.

Provided that the F-35 will be able to solve all its problems, and that the raising costs will not lead to a death spiral of order cuts, both the British RAF and the Italian Air Force will be equipped with both the JSF and the Typhoon.

Mock aerial combat training will tell us who’s better in aerial combat.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-f-35-will-never-beat-the-eurofighter-2013-2#ixzz2NWRpe9tL

Boilwater

F-35自卖自夸，的原文。

Lockheed claims F-35 kinematics ‘better than or equal to’ Typhoon or Super Hornet

Lockheed Martin is claiming that all three versions of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) will have kinematic performance better than or equal to any combat-configured fourth-generation fighter. The comparison includes transonic acceleration performance versus an air-to-air configured Eurofighter Typhoon and high angle-of-attack flight performance vis-à-vis the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

"The F-35 is comparable or better in every one of those metrics, sometimes by a significant margin, in both air-to-air, and when we hog-up those fourth-generation fighters, for the air-to-ground mission," says Billy Flynn, a Lockheed test pilot who is responsible for flight envelope expansion activities for all three variants.

But the Lockheed claims are strongly disputed by other sources, including one veteran Super Hornet test pilot with thousands of hours in that aircraft. "These claims are technically inaccurate from my point of view as a professional test pilot," he says. "An aircraft with small control surfaces intended for stealth cannot produce such fantastical results in maneuverability; a little wing cannot produce a lot of lift period."

Flynn says "that the F-35 can go out on any given day, and we have, gone to the red line of the airplane" with a full internal weapons load. Going to the limits of the aircraft's envelope with a full load of weapons is "inconceivable in any of the other fourth-generation airplanes, including Typhoon, which most would say has the best performance of those four fourth-gen jets," says Flynn, who is a former test pilot for the Eurofighter and Lockheed F-16. All variants of the F-35 are capable of flying at Mach 1.6 and 50° angle-of-attack, he says. The A and C models have a maximum speed of 700 knots calibrated airspeed (KCAS-1296 km/h) while the F-35B can fly at 630 KCAS (1167 Km/h). The A, B and C variant are rated at 9g, 7g and 7.5g's respectively.

But at issue is exactly what constitutes a combat load out. An F-35 loaded up with two 2000lbs bombs and two air-to-air missiles internally is not carrying an equivalent payload to a Eurofighter Typhoon with four 2000lbs bombs and five air-to-air missiles or a Super Hornet armed with a mix of bombs and air-to-air missiles. "What was the combat load out?" the Super Hornet pilot asks. "If you compare apples and oranges --you can make claims like that." One highly experienced pilot flying the Lockheed F-22 Raptor adds, "They need to compare the performances based on similar amounts of ordnance carriage."

Another point that must be considered, however, is that the F-35 will only be relying on its internal weapons payload during operations against a very robust threat environment. "Internal carriage is only required if you need the stealth," another F-22 pilot says. "At which point a fourth generation jet may not even be able to deliver on the target."

Stealth is a point that Lockheed emphasizes. "The game-changer is stealth," Flynn says. "No one is going to see us coming or going." But exactly how many targets an F-35 could attack with its internal payload versus a non-stealth platform during a campaign is debatable. "There is a whole other story on how many targets the F-35 could hit with the limited internal carry versus the fourth-gen plus jets," the second Raptor pilot says.

Asked to address the issue of transonic acceleration compared to the best performing fourth-generation machines, in this case an air-to-air configured Typhoon, Flynn reiterated that the F-35 was better than or equal to that aircraft. Even with the reduced transonic acceleration times mentioned in the Pentagon's director of operational test and evaluation 2012 report, the F-35, including the C-model which had its specifications reduced by 43 seconds, still out accelerates competing aircraft in a combat configuration, he says.

But others are skeptical. "Forty-three seconds tells me there is a massive decrease in the expected performance because of some serious shortcomings," the Super Hornet pilot says. "How that's parlayed into 'we're better than the rest of the world combined' on every measure, I don't know, and I don't believe it." More important is the question of how the reduction in performance impacts aircraft survivability. "So what if you can accelerate better than a [F-16] Viper or Typhoon, can you live against an SA-20?" asks the second F-22 pilot.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/in-focus-lockheed-claims-f-35-kinematics-better-than-or-equal-to-typhoon-or-super-hornet-382078/

waja2000

很多网站都流传的新闻，新加坡可能10天后宣布买12架F-35B ... 个人觉得如果新加坡买F-35B, 估计会建2万多吨的直升机航母， 类似日本22DDH的吨数， 技术上新加坡的ST应该没有什么问题， 吧他们设计的Endurance 160 LHD在加大到2万多吨就可以了。

Singapore Poised To Announce Purchase Of 12 F-35Bs

WASHINGTON: Singapore is expected to announce sometime in the next 10 days that it plans to buy its first squadron --12 planes -- of some 75 of Lockheed Martin's F-35Bs, further bolstering what had been the flagging fortunes of the world's most expensive conventional weapon system.

The fact that American allies in the Pacific are the ones committing to the controversial and over-budget aircraft is telling. If you want to understand the calculus driving these choices, first look at China, which to countries such as Singapore, Japan, Australia, and South Korea is the primary long-term threat.

The Singaporeans are extremely shy about declaring their intentions in public, eager to offer few chances for China and Malaysia to react, but two sources familiar with the program confirmed the likely announcement. Given Singapore's tiny size, its choice of which of the three F-35 versions to buy is not surprising. A plane that can take off almost vertically and can land vertically is able to operate from a much smaller footprint than, say the F-35A (the Air Force version) or F-16 Block 60s. And, given Singapore's geography, the F-35B makes great sense for its ability to operate closely with the US Marines -- as well as with F-35Cs operating from our aircraft carriers.


全部报道看下面
http://defense.aol.com/2013/03/2 ... chase-of-12-f-35bs/

Boilwater

waja2000 发表于 28-3-2013 01:21 AM
很多网站都流传的新闻，新加坡可能10天后宣布买12架F-35B ... 个人觉得如果新加坡买F-35B, 估计会建2万多吨 ...

国会都已经讨论了，应该是买定了。
但是，是不是10天后公布就很难说了。
再不买预警机的话，台风很难先发现F-35.

树头

小国必须依附霸权才有生存空间,在军购问题上,新加坡根本别无选择。

社区乞丐王

结果马国没钱买台风，可能会考虑法国的阵风。这种飞机连新加坡现在的F15SG 都敌不过，不要讲F35。

完蛋了。

waja2000

社区乞丐王 发表于 31-3-2013 03:39 PM
结果马国没钱买台风，可能会考虑法国的阵风。这种飞机连新加坡现在的F15SG 都敌不过，不要讲F35。

完蛋了 ...

不是没有钱买， 只是花140亿马币左右， 值得没有，性价如何 ....
再说台风的性能也不过如此 ...
中型机要和F15SG重型战机比也不合理， 要比只能su-30来比 ....   

RSSFORMIDABLE

只是买12架?之前不是有新加坡网友说100架的吗?

没有AESA的台风能打赢F15SG? 这应该是大笑话

台风除了飞行能力赢过F15SG外，没有一样可以比得上F15SG

包括导弹等。

jbben

RSSFORMIDABLE 发表于 31-3-2013 09:15 PM
只是买12架?之前不是有新加坡网友说100架的吗?

没有AESA的台风能打赢F15SG? 这应该是大笑话

（台风除了飞行能力赢过F15SG外，没有一样可以比得上F15SG）。七十年代设计的战机可以打败现代的设计？是视距外还是空中缠斗 ？

RSSFORMIDABLE

jbben 发表于 31-3-2013 09:56 PM
（台风除了飞行能力赢过F15SG外，没有一样可以比得上F15SG）。七十年代设计的战机可以打败现代的设计？是 ...

等台风有了aesa后，才拿台风和F15SG 拿来比

树头

RSSFORMIDABLE 发表于 31-3-2013 10:07 PM
等台风有了aesa后，才拿台风和F15SG 拿来比

战机的AESA也不是什么了不起的神器，有地面相控阵雷达和预警机共同引导应可以从容面对。旁观者认为建立地面预警系统和空中预警系统才是大马迫切要做的东西，邻国用防空导弹+火箭炮防御不是更省油省力吗？

RSSFORMIDABLE

树头 发表于 31-3-2013 11:24 PM
战机的AESA也不是什么了不起的神器，有地面相控阵雷达和预警机共同引导应可以从容面对。旁观者认为建立地 ...

如果不是什么了不起的神器，那为何世界各国都竞相研究发展aesa???

树头

RSSFORMIDABLE 发表于 31-3-2013 11:25 PM
如果不是什么了不起的神器，那为何世界各国都竞相研究发展aesa???

军迷先生，鉴于电力与体积局限，战斗机上的AESA是永远无法跟预警机的AESA作比较的。