工作犬的经历,Ultimate K9 （ 進來坐坐吧）

lazypapa

樓主！你的 SAR club 還有在運作嗎？

jacqueline8912

不是，K9是canine的缩写。大马的收费30k左右，我就。。。。。看你缘分，哈哈
calvinsam_k9 发表于 16-1-2010 05:55 PM

   
有没有缘分是不用钱的~哈哈~！
30K是学完全部吗？带自己的狗去？现在要学是找你的徒弟吗？

calvinsam_k9

有没有缘分是不用钱的~哈哈~！
30K是学完全部吗？带自己的狗去？现在要学是找你的徒弟吗？
jacqueline8912 发表于 19-1-2010 10:44 AM

30k不是我的收费，我已出国了。你要学？

eileenkerk

好羡慕，如果有一只这样的狗就爽了～～～～，我的比格应该没办法训练成这样～～～

calvinsam_k9

SAR  没有被政府批准，所以未能成立

lazypapa

好可惜哦！

phoenixlim

好懷念哦.. 帖子又浮上來了...

因為狗狗, 曾經很想很想成為K9的一份子...

calvinsam_k9

好懷念哦.. 帖子又浮上來了...

因為狗狗, 曾經很想很想成為K9的一份子...
phoenixlim 发表于 20-1-2010 03:28 PM

一样，希望有这么一天

rac_b

狗本来就有看门的本领，至于要不要练成protection，就要看看狗狗和主人。
1.在还没练protection之前， ...
calvinsam_k9 发表于 18-1-2010 21:52

    是酱的哦。。

zxom

狗本来就有看门的本领，至于要不要练成protection，就要看看狗狗和主人。
1.在还没练protection之前， ...
calvinsam_k9 发表于 18-1-2010 09:52 PM

LZ~!  很不明白,為何训练杜斌扑咬(其他狗也一樣), 一定是咬左手? 不咬拿兇器的手?
如果現實生活中, 兇徒右手拿巴冷刀,狗"習悟慣性"去咬左手,  兇徒很客易以右手巴冷刀砍下去, 那不是完了? 這训练正確嗎?

calvinsam_k9

回复 391# zxom

你所说的一般上都出现在K9 Sport，如schH。在比赛里，狗扑咬其手，helper做出反抗攻击，这是可以看到狗是不受压力的影响。这些是比赛，比赛是有规矩的，所以我们在这里不批评。毕竟目的不一样。

在很多国家的警犬已不用类似的训练，美国就因为这原因一年失去上千只警犬。bark and hold是不能用在警犬的，至于你说的扑咬动作，现在的警犬多是攻击全身任何部位来达到尽快把犯人击倒，警员可以尽快上前捉拿。

YanLee

请问SAR还有吗？我有一只黄金，我想带它加入SAR。

hao_ren

好帖，谢谢楼主的分享...

howww

The Difference Between Schutzhund & KNPV Dogs and Their Ability to do Police Service Work

By Ed Frawley
Copyright 1998
http://leerburg.com/schvsknpv.htm h!p2sF
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Both started in the early 1900's. Schutzhund and KNPV are great European dog sports. Schutzhund originated in Germany and the KNPV began in Holland.
两个始自19世纪初,欧洲的两大工作犬竞技赛——德国的Schutzhund和荷兰的KNPV.

Schutzhund was started by  Amax Avon Stephanitz who is the founder of the German Shepherd breed. He designed the sport of schutzhund to be used as a tool by breeders. Schutzhund is intended to give a breeder a way of measuring the working ability of a dog so that this information can be used in a breeding program. Schutzhund was originally intended as a certification program, which in effect it still is. But over the years it has evolved into a sport where competitors see who can do the best job in training their dogs in the skills that are tested.

Schutzhund由德牧之父 Amax Avon Stephanitz 创设.其目的是为德牧繁育者提供一种（系统化）的选育手段。通过Schutzhund测试，繁育者能够评估一只犬的工作能力，并将之应用于繁育计划中。Schutzhund的初衷是繁育资质测试，今日也依旧如此。当然了，多年之后的Schutzhund，也成为了一项工作犬竞技运动。犬在多种测试科目中的出色表现，反映着训导员的训练水平。


The KNPV is also known as the Royal Dutch Police Dog Sport. The name would imply that the sport trains police dogs. This is not correct, the dogs trained in KNPV can not and should not go directly into police service work. The sport was originally designed to provide a certification program by the Dutch government for civilians to train and title dogs that would then be made available to the Dutch Police. The fact is that many people who train in the KNPV still feel that the purpose of the sport is to provide dogs for service work. Many of the exercises closely relate to skills that are needed as a service dog. The fact is that a KNPV titled dog still needs to go through 5 or 6 weeks of additional training to get it ready to work as a street police service dog. Over the years the KNPV has also developed into a dog sport more than a certification program in Holland.

KNPV的全称是“荷兰皇家警犬竞技赛”。光看这个，也许你会以为是以竞技的方式训练警犬。其实并非如此。KNPV的训练犬只，并不能也不应该直接应用于警方的实际作业。KNPV的初衷是一项由荷兰官方认证的（训练）资质认证。它使得平民也能训练工作犬，并让其受训犬也能获得荷兰警方的役用资格。事实上，许多KNPV的参与者仍旧认为其目的就是为警方提供役用犬。KNPV的许多项目与警用犬的科目非常接近。不过，即便是获得KNPV名衔的犬，仍旧需要5-6周的额外训练，才能上街执行巡逻任务。多年之后的KNPV，除了作为荷兰的一项（训练）资质认证，也发展成为了（世界性的）工作犬竞技运动。


Many dog vendors in this country intentionally mislead people and police agencies into believing that both Schutzhund and KNPV dogs are qualified to become police service dogs simply because they have obtained a Schutzhund or a KNPV title. Nothing is further from the truth. Both dog sports train a dog to bite a man. But it's possible to train dogs in either dog sport to bite strictly using the dogs prey drive. A dog must be able to work in his “defensive drive” and in “fight drive” to be a functional police service dog.

美国的狗贩商人有意误导大众和警方，让他们以为有Schutzhund和KNPV名衔的犬，就能胜任警用作业。其实根本就没这回事，而且偏离了事实。这两项运动都训犬咬捕，但它们只是严格限于“捕猎驱力”来训练咬捕。作为实际的警方役用犬，一只犬必须能以其“防御驱力”和“战斗驱力”进行咬捕。


In schutzhund the dogs are trained to track. The style of tracking is called "competition foot step tracking." The purpose of schutzhund tracking is not so much to teach a dog to follow a scent (that is a simple task) as it is to test the trainers ability to train a dog to follow scent very precisely and at a very controlled speed. Yes the dog must follow scent but the deciding factor in this work is not getting to the end of the track as much as it is the style at which the dog works (slow, methodical, not getting off the track more than a foot or two and not going by a corner by more than a body length). It is difficult to train a schutzhund dog to track in such a way that the pressure needed to get the dog to slow down and conform to the rules does not bleed over into the obedience work. If it does the pressure results in a dog that looks like it's depressed and hates the work. Training a good schutzhund tracking dog is an “ART FORM.”

Schutzhund犬要训练追踪科目。追踪的方式是“循迹追踪竞赛”。Schutzhund追踪的目的不仅要看训导员能否教导犬来“寻迹”（这只是任务之一），它还要测试训导员能否在训导犬寻迹的时候，保持精准而充分控制的步速。犬必须能够追随迹线，而关键性的要素不仅在于找出嗅源，更在于整个寻迹过程的风格（平缓；规整；迹线脱离时，不得越出一步或两步；角隅通过时，不得越出一个犬身）。当存在压力，迫使犬放慢脚步时，很难训练一只Schutzhund犬进行追踪，也很难让它顺应不同于“服从测试”的那些规则。压力性的结果，往往导致犬状态低迷，厌恶工作。训练一只出色的Schutzhund追踪犬，其实是一种“人为的艺术形式”。


It is important to realize that schutzhund tracking is no where near police service tracking. The fact is that if a dog was "FORCE TRACKED" for sport work (which is common) it will not do police service tracking. These force tracked dogs do not like to track as a result of the force that was put on it in the force training. Service dogs need to be trained to track through drive and tracking at speed is an important part of this training.

这必须要认识到，Schutzhund追踪与警用犬追踪作业完全不同。事实在于，竞技运动犬是以“强迫追踪”的方式工作，（这很普遍），而它并不适用于警用犬的追踪作业。由于强迫性训练，“强迫追踪”的受训犬并不喜欢去追踪。警方役用犬的训练是训导犬的“驱力追踪”，快速追踪也是此项训练的重要组成。


The KNPV does not have any tracking in their normal certification program (they do offer a special tracking Certificate.) One of the exercises in the KNPV is to do area searches in the woods for articles and for the helper. This is a particularity bad concept for a dog that is going to become a service dog. Dog's that are first trained to run around with their nose in the air trying to find the airborne scent from an article or a man can almost never be trained to become good tracking dogs where the scent comes from the ground. Tracking should always be trained before area search.

KNPV的标准资质认证中没有追踪项目（不过它的确提供专门的追踪认证）。KNPV的项目之一是“区域搜索”，这是在林地间搜寻嗅源和助训员。对未来警用犬而言，“区域搜索”的概念极其有害。那些习惯到处乱跑，向空中嗅探（以期找寻空气中的嗅源及助训员气味）的受训犬，永远不能成为优秀的地面寻迹【追踪】犬。在进行“区域搜索”科目之前，务必先进行追踪训练。


In Holland when police agencies purchase a KNPV titled dog the animal must first go through a selection test where it's drives are tested for service work. Once an animal has been selected it then goes through 6 weeks of training before it is allowed to work on the street. In addition, the Dutch police recognize the scent restrictions of the sport and train special tracking dogs for their scent work. These specialty tracking dog's are almost exclusively not KNPV certificate dogs.

在荷兰，警方购买KNPV名衔犬时，必须进行筛选测试，以审察犬的役用性驱力。所择犬只还要经过6周的再训练，才能执行巡逻任务。此外，警方也意识到竞技运动犬在追踪方面的局限，故此采用了专门的追踪犬，用于实际的追踪作业。这类专门追踪犬，几乎无一例外都不是KNPV认证犬。

toonho編輯: 轉帖非中文帖子時 務必在原文下方加上以中文書寫的簡介, 以方便中文佳禮的朋友. 請發帖人在三天內完成 (現在是2010年1月22日)

howww

The protection work for Schutzhund has little to do with police service work. The schutzhund bite work is a very precise routine that dogs can be "programmed" to work through. Granted, it takes a certain level of temperament and drive to be able to perform the routine. This drive level is so low on dogs that pass the schutzhund exam that it almost eliminates the value of a title to a breeder like myself. Frankly through proper training dogs can easily be schutzhund titled but these same dogs can not come close to passing a selection test for police work, much less be trained to do the work.

Schutzhund的护卫赛对警方的实际作业几乎没有什么关联。Schutzhund咬捕科目太过程式化，通过“细致规划”的训练，很多犬都能通过。只要具有一定秉性和驱力的犬，就能照例达成。所需的驱力水平如此之低，对我这样的繁殖者而言，Schutzhund证书简直毫无意义。坦白地说，只要训练正确，很多犬都能轻松获得Schutzhund名衔。不过这些Schutzhund名衔犬，不大可能会通过警方的筛选测试。能真正受训以应用于实际工作的，那就更少了。


When a dog is titled in schutzhund the judge gives his opinion on what type of "COURAGE" the dog has displayed that day. A "PRONOUNCED" rating is the highest. The problem is that 90% of the schutzhund judges do not understand true aggression. They don't understand fight drive and they are not willing to admit it. Dog's are constantly given "pronounced" ratings when in fact they don't deserve it. This is evident by the number of schutzhund titled dogs that do not have the courage and hardness to do police service work. The problem is that the judges confuse "very active prey drive" in the bite work with true aggression.

在授予Schutzhund名衔时，裁判会依照犬在当日表现，确定其“勇敢”的类型。最高等级是"PRONOUNCED"（显著）。问题是90%的Schutzhund裁判都不理解什么是真正的攻击性。他们不理解战斗驱力也不愿承认它。被授予“显著”名衔的犬，实际上根本不配这一称号。瞧瞧看，有多少Schutzhund名衔犬缺乏警方役用作业的勇气和硬度！问题在于，裁判将犬在咬捕中的“高度积极的捕猎驱力”与真正的攻击性弄混了。


The obedience in the Schutzhund sport is also very precise. Way more than is needed for a service dog. While there is nothing wrong with the challenge to train a dog to perform at this level of precision and still maintain a respectable drive, it is very difficult to do. In most cases, with novice trainer, dogs developed minor temperament problems. They lose over all drive because of inappropriate force being applied by new handlers. With the advent of better videos and books in this country, this is becoming less and less of a problem than it was 15 years ago.

Schutzhund的服从科目同样很精准。远远超出了役用犬之所需。训练犬达成这种精准的水平，并且依旧保持良好的驱力。这种挑战当然没错，但却很难做到。在新手训导时，犬往往会有次生性的性格问题。这是由于新手采取了不适当的强迫手段，使得犬失去了所有的驱力。当然了，在过去的15年中，由于更佳的训犬视频及训犬书籍的传布，这类问题越来越少。


While the KNPV sport does not require the same level of precision as schutzhund, it does seem that a lot of Dutch trainers are very hard on their dogs in obedience. I think this is because of the fact that they have not been forced to develop other training methods because many of their Malinois (at least the ones selected for their sport) are so high in drive that they can take the force and still maintain drive.

KNPV竞技运动并不需要Schutzhund那样的精确性。很多荷兰训犬师在服从训练中，看上去也非常强硬。我想，这可能是因为，没人强迫他们去发展其他的训犬方法。毕竟他们手中的马犬（至少就竞赛用犬而言）有足够高的驱力，它们能够经受住强迫，依旧保持其驱力水平。


In KNPV we also see a lot of dogs (even at the national level) who are strictly prey dogs. The sport has been gaining in popularity in this country because people have recognized the weaknesses of schutzhund and are not willing to accept them. These people think that the KNPV is a much more difficult sport where only the tough survive. Unfortunately they are wrong. The KNPV is a great sport if one keeps in mind that it is "JUST A SPORT."

在KNPV中（甚至是在全国赛中），我们也能发现许多仅仅具有捕猎驱力的犬。在美国，KNPV越来越受大众欢迎，因为人们已经认识到Schutzhund的种种缺陷，而不愿意再接受它们。这些人认为KNPV是更艰难的竞技运动，唯有强者才能生存。不幸的是，他们也错了。KNPV是一项伟大的竞技运动，请记住，它也只不过是一顶“竞技运动”而已。


I have seen a lot is KNPV dogs that are imported into this country that bite like alligators but have nerve problems. This makes them jumpy and a little dangerous to work from a handlers standpoint. This is not something that is seen very often in German Shepherds but it is not that uncommon in Malinoise. The Dutch should not be blamed for this. These dogs are almost always sold at reduced prices (many times they are 1/2 the price of a qualified dog.) The fact is the people who are to blame are the American importers who are trying to make a few extra dollars and accept lesser quality dogs.

我见识了许多进口到美国的KNPV犬。它们扑咬起来象美洲鳄，但却有神经方面的问题。它们有些神经兮兮，从训导员的角度来看，它们还有点危险。有太多神经兮兮的德牧，人们都不当一回事了。但是对马犬而言，这就有些非同寻常了。不应该为此而指责荷兰人。这些犬通常是降价销售的（往往是认证合格的犬的一半价钱）。应该受指责的，是那些美国进口商。他们为了多挣一点点额外的小钱，就进口那些不太合格的犬。


The reason for getting into KNPV is there is no tracking and the exercises are fun to train for (guard the article and handler protection etc.) Some people who live in cities have problems finding proper tracking grounds and some people simply hate training tracking (I find this hard to believe because it's my favorite thing to train.) It's my personal feeling that KNPV would be the sport of choice in America today had it come to the States 25 years ago the way Schutzhund did.

KNPV吸引人的地方在于，它不需要追踪，而训练项目也充满了乐趣（比如看守物品和护卫训导员，等等）。一些城市居民很难找到合适的追踪场地，而另一些人则纯粹是厌恶追踪训练。（我个人很难相信这一点，因为追踪我是最喜欢的训练科目。）我个人感觉，KNPV会成为今日美国的主流竞技犬赛，正如Schutzhund在25年前那样。


I would recommend either Schutzhund or the KNPV to anyone interested in training working dogs. Both Schutzhund and KNPV have had a positive influence on breeding working dogs in this country. It's the influence of these dog sports that have raised the quality of police service dogs in America. I just feel that it is a mistake to think that all Schutzhund dogs and all KNPV dog's can become police service dogs. The facts are that very few of them have the drive or temperament for the work.

对于任何有兴趣训练工作犬的人士，我会推荐Schutzhund或KNPV。在美国，Schutzhund和KNPV对工作犬繁育有着积极的影响。这两种工作犬竞技运动，促进了美国警用犬质量的提高。我只是觉得，认为所有Schutzhund和KNPV犬都能成为警犬，这种观点是错误的。事实上，只有极少数的竞技运动犬具有胜任使役工作的驱力或秉性。


As far as I am concerned the best patrol dog candidates are young males who have started their training in Schutzhund KNPV (at the bite development stage) but have not yet been titled. If adult titled dogs are purchased for service dogs a good part of their training involved correcting problems caused by sport handlers and reprogramming the dogs to work on the street.

就我个人来说，最佳巡逻犬的候选者，应在Schutzhund和KNPV受训犬中选择。具体而言，候选犬是那些处于咬捕训练阶段，但尚未获得名衔的年轻公犬。如果是购入已获名衔的成犬，用以实际作业，那么其训练的大部分在于纠正竞技运动训导员造成的种种问题。犬必须进行“系统化的改造”训练，才能上街执行任务。

howww

回复 391# zxom


Schutzhund 原意是测试/评估德牧的性格，胆量，工作能力包括嗅觉，服从等。后来发展成为一种运动。而Doberman, Rottweiler, Malinois 也都参与这种比赛。SCHH的狗并不代表可以实际作为护卫用途。实际用途是要再作进一步的训练。 SCHH狗往往只会专注咬手罩，当没有手罩的时候他往往会不知所措。 IPO则依照SCHH的过程而分别是可以咬身体何部位。 所以测试时扮贼者是要穿上保护衣的。
德式的Schutzhund也就是咬着护袖不放为好。过去的日子就有无数的护卫狗因为咬着敌人的手臂死口不放而被杀死，这个是事实。后来其它国家的护卫犬运动也改为咬脚或咬身体任何部分都可以。

zxom

回复  zxom


Schutzhund 原意是测试/评估德牧的性格，胆量，工作能力包括嗅觉，服从等。后来发展成为一 ...
howww 发表于 24-1-2010 05:40 PM

詳細的解答, 解開了迷思我許久的問題. Schutzhund在現今來說, 只是Sport或者Show, 真正protection又是另種訓練.
明白了. 多謝.

calvinsam_k9

还有六天就要回国了，如果有空会拍点照片。

lazypapa

还有六天就要回国了，如果有空会拍点照片。
calvinsam_k9 发表于 25-1-2010 11:42 AM

可以去參觀訓練場地的嗎？

calvinsam_k9

可以去參觀訓練場地的嗎？
lazypapa 发表于 25-1-2010 12:25 PM

如果有空的话就可以