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楼主: kamwah

教会都没有爱宴/LOVE FEAST & 搖籤/LOTS ? (新增::馬太福音26:13的女人 #34)

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 楼主| 发表于 11-9-2007 11:31 AM | 显示全部楼层

回复 #20 山鸡老弟 的帖子

我说的私人教会是属于灵恩派的啦。。。
我教会也是沾酒的
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发表于 11-9-2007 11:43 AM | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 kamwah 于 11-9-2007 11:31 AM 发表
我说的私人教会是属于灵恩派的啦。。。
我教会也是沾酒的


哎呀!我有没有说你或者那个私人教会,我是说我自己的教会啦!

其实很多教会,包括长老会、浸信会等等都在使用即用即丢的杯子了,只有圣公会还是照旧!!

By the way, 圣公会里也有灵恩派的,你知道吗?

[ 本帖最后由 山鸡老弟 于 11-9-2007 11:46 AM 编辑 ]
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 楼主| 发表于 11-9-2007 11:50 AM | 显示全部楼层

回复 #22 山鸡老弟 的帖子

HAR@_@

我只是知道有大公派  福音派  和自由派的woh
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发表于 11-9-2007 12:38 PM | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 kamwah 于 11-9-2007 11:50 AM 发表
HAR@_@

我只是知道有大公派  福音派  和自由派的woh



当我们说灵恩的时候,是表示那教会有讲方言、神医等等!
福音派是反对这些的。

圣公会虽然是传统主流教派,还是也是有教会行灵恩的,你的沙巴圣公会就是例子咯!

而灵恩派已经在第二波灵恩运动时进入传统教会,有许多信徒经历圣灵外显的工作了!
有些教会不是说要走灵恩就有灵恩的,而是圣灵在他们的教会大大复兴。

但是,在灵恩派,也可以分成温和的灵恩派(如不在崇拜时说方言,而鼓励在私祷时用),以及极度灵恩(坚持圣灵充满一定说方言等等)。。。

有很多书籍都有介绍灵恩运动的历史,在网上也能够找到很多资料。
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 楼主| 发表于 11-9-2007 09:04 PM | 显示全部楼层
我们比较是在自己私祷时候用方言的。。。
har...是吗?你sure不sure的哦。。。


天主教也有说方言的啦。。。aduh @_@

我以为每个教会都有教导关于用方言的东西的列
有教会完全不提"方言"这两个字的??
为何需要灵恩运动这样的东西列?

[ 本帖最后由 kamwah 于 11-9-2007 09:09 PM 编辑 ]
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发表于 12-9-2007 10:02 AM | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 kamwah 于 11-9-2007 09:04 PM 发表
我们比较是在自己私祷时候用方言的。。。
har...是吗?你sure不sure的哦。。。


天主教也有说方言的啦。。。aduh @_@

我以为每个教会都有教导关于用方言的东西的列
有教会完全不提"方言"这两个字的? ...


是不是,都说你是灵恩派咯!! 哦!应该说您是 温和的灵恩派!

听说天主教也有被圣灵感动而讲方言的例子。

可能你需要多多到其他教会观摩,与其他基督徒谈谈,你会发现许多传统的教会如:长老会等,是否定方言的,他们认为人既然有了圣经,神会透过圣经向人说话,他们认为预言与方言的时代已经过去了!

我个人认为,方言是圣灵所赐的恩赐,是圣灵感动而发出的语言,
不是人做出来的声音,

但很可惜,现在有许多的“方言”都是人做出来的“舌音”,不是从圣灵来的。
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 楼主| 发表于 12-9-2007 09:10 PM | 显示全部楼层

回复 #26 山鸡老弟 的帖子

yer....你教会没有用方言祈祷的咩。。。有用方言不代表是灵恩派的吧。。。adui

舌音。。。天主教是指方言来的罗。。。他们也有那些倒下去之类的东西的@_@

我发觉到自己教会用的方言的音都差不一样的列。。。

[ 本帖最后由 kamwah 于 14-9-2007 12:13 AM 编辑 ]
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 楼主| 发表于 12-9-2007 11:14 PM | 显示全部楼层
究竟是什麼樣的禱告

用心靈來禱告是禱告中最深澳的境界對東正教來說,從現在開始當我說東正教,其實也包括天主教及新教,初期教會的開始是覆頌耶穌名字,禱告還沒有一個正式的形態,也許說 “主耶穌基督憐憫我”或 “主耶穌基督” “神的兒子” “憐憫我這罪人”或 “主耶穌基督” 或更簡單的只說”耶穌”其實這是取決於個人的個性,何者是他們喜歡的方式,其實結果是一樣的,禱告都是一樣的。

http://www.theology.cn/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=240&Itemid=8
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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2007 01:54 AM | 显示全部楼层
从WIKIPEDIA找来的

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agape_feast


Fresco of a banquet[1] at a tomb in the Catacomb of Saints Marcellinus and Peter, Via Labicana, Rome


The Agape feast was one term used for certain meals celebrated by the early Christians. While centered on the Eucharistic ritual of the bread and wine, it also included various other ritual elements, including elements of the Passover Seder and of Mediterranean funerary banquets, also termed Agape Feasts. Agape is one of the Greek words for love,particularly applied to selfless love or God's love for mankind, and so"agape feasts" are also referred to in English as "love-feasts".

Early Christianity

Such meals were widespread, though not universal, in the earlyChristian world. The earliest account of what can be seen as one ofthem is that in 1 Corinthians 11:20-22, where it appears associated with, and given the name of, the celebration of the Lord's Supper.The service apparently involved a full meal, with the participantsbringing their own food but eating in a common room. Perhapspredictably enough, it could at times deteriorate into merely anoccasion for eating and drinking, or for ostentatious displays by thewealthier members of the community, as happened in Corinth, drawing thecriticisms of Saint Paul in the passage mentioned.

Soon after the year 100, Ignatius of Antioch refers to the agape or love-feast.[2] Letter 96 from Pliny the Younger to Trajan in about 112 suggests that the meal was taken after at least that part of the Eucharistic rite that is now called the Mass of the Catechumens or Liturgy of the Word. Tertullian too writes of these meals.[3] Clement of Alexandria (c.150-211/216) distinguished so-called "Agape" meals of luxurious character from the agape (love) "which the food that comes from Christ shows that we ought to partake of".[4] Accusations of gross indecency were sometimes made against the form that these meals sometimes took.[5] Referring to Clement of Alexandria, Stromata III,2, Philip Schaff commented: "The early disappearance of the Christian agapæ may probably be attributed to the terrible abuse of the word here referred to, by the licentious Carpocratians. The genuine agapæwere of apostolic origin (2 Pet. ii. 13; Jude 12), but were oftenabused by hypocrites, even under the apostolic eye (1 Corinthians11:21). In the Gallican Church, a survival or relic of these feasts ofcharity is seen in the pain béni; and, in the Greek churches. in the ἀντίδωρον or eulogiædistributed to non-communicants at the close of the Eucharist, from theloaf out of which the bread of oblation is supposed to have been cut."[6]


Augustine of Hippoalso objected to the continuance in his native North Africa of thecustom of such meals, in which some indulged to the point ofdrunkenness, and he distinguished them from proper celebration of theEucharist: "Let us take the body of Christ in communion with those withwhom we are forbidden to eat even the bread which sustains our bodies."[7] He reports that even before the time of his stay in Milan, the custom had already been forbidden there.[8]
Canons 27 and 28 of the Council of Laodicea (364) restricted the abuses.[9] The Third Council of Carthage (393) and the Second Council of Orleans (541) reiterated this legislation, which prohibited feasting in churches, and the Trullan Councilof 692 decreed that honey and milk were not to be offered on the altar(Canon 57), and that those who held love feasts in churches should beexcommunicated (Canon 74).


Protestant revivals of the practice

After the Protestant Reformationthere was a move amongst some groups of Christians to try to return tothe practices of the New Testament Church. One such group were the Moravians led by Count Zinzendorf and they reinstituted the Love Feast. This was a simple sharing of Love Feast Buns and tea or punch, and then testimonies were given.
John Wesley the founder of Methodism travelled to America in the company of the Moravians and greatly admired their faith and practice. After his conversion in 1738 he introduced the Love Feast to the Methodist Church. Due to the lack of ordained ministers within Methodism, the Love Feast took on a life of its own, as there were few opportunities to take Communion.
The Primitive Methodists also celebrated the Love Feast, before it gradually died out again in the Nineteenth Century as the revival cooled.


Contemporary

Some contemporary Christians participate in Agape meals onrare occasions, to experience this historical form of the Eucharist.Many Christians, however, after celebrating the Eucharist, nowroutinely participate in a sharing of light refreshments andconversation in an informal gathering that is functionally an Agape.This post-Eucharistic gathering is often called "fellowship hour" or"coffee hour" and is regarded by many clergy as a particularlyopportune time for engaging adults in Christian education. The Churchof the Brethren is one which regularly practices Agape feasts (called"Love Feast"), generally including anywhere from a light to full mealeaten together, foot washing, and a short message.


Agape in Free masonry

Agape is also the name given by some masonic traditions to the formal meals held after meetings. [10] The meal always includes a joint of meat (normally beef) to be cut ceremonially by the master of the lodge. The meal is often accompanied with wine, normally supplied by senior members of the lodge. It has been a tradition in freemasonry since the late eighteenth century, though may have taken place previous to the Grand Lodge being formed in London in 1717.

[ 本帖最后由 kamwah 于 4-10-2007 02:09 AM 编辑 ]
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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2007 01:55 AM | 显示全部楼层
References
  • ^The word "Agape" in the inscription has led some to interpret the sceneas that of an Agape feast. However, the phrase within which the wordappears is "Agape misce nobis" (Agape, mix for us, i.e. prepare thewine for us), making it more likely that Agape is the name of the womanholding the cup. A very similar fresco and inscription elsewhere in thesame catacomb has, in exactly the same position within the fresco, thewords "Misce mi Irene" (Mix for me, Irene). A reproduction of thisother fresco can be seen at Catacombe dei Ss. Marcellino e Pietro,where it is accompanied by the explanation (in Italian) "One of themost frequently recurring scenes in the paintings is that of thebanquet, generally interpreted as a symbolic representation of the joysof the afterlife, but in which it may be possible to discern arealistic presentation of the agapae, the funeral banquets held tocommemorate the dead person." Agape, like Irene, may thus be the nameof the person buried where the fresco was painted.
  • ^ Smyrnaeans, 8:2
  • ^ Apology, 39; De Corona Militis, 3
  • ^ Paedagogus II, 1
  • ^"Sed majoris est Agape, quia per hanc adolescentes tui cum sororibusdormiunt, appendices scilicet gulae lascivia et luxuria" (Tertullian, De Jejuniis, 17, quoted in Gibbons: Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire).
  • ^ Elucidations
  • ^ Letter 22, 1:3
  • ^ Confessions, 6.2.2
  • ^ The Council of Laodicea in Phrygia Pacatiana
  • ^ http://www.freemason.org/documents/CFMSummer2004.pdf


[ 本帖最后由 kamwah 于 4-10-2007 02:08 AM 编辑 ]
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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2007 02:08 AM | 显示全部楼层
In Western culture

Casting of lots occurs frequently in the Bible.
In the Old Testament, there are three cases where casting lots was invoked as a legitimate means of determining God's wishes:
  • In the Book of Joshua,God commands that a thief be found by casting lots, first among thetribes of Israel, then among the families of that tribe, etc. Akan, theperson identified in this way, confesses his guilt, and shows where hehas buried the loot.
  • In the First book of Samuel,lots are cast to determine who has angered God. It is determined thatit was Jonathan, Saul's son, who broke the Oath that Saul made,"Cursedbe the man who eats food until its evening and I am avenged on myenemies." (1 Samuel 14:24)
  • In the Book of Jonah, casting of lots is used to determine by Jonah'screw that he was, in fact, the source of the storm they were enduring.He was subsequently cast overboard, causing the storm to dissipate.
Other places in the Old Testament relevant to divination:
  • Book of Proverbs (16:33): "The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof isof the LORD." and (18:18): "The lot causeth contentions to cease, andparteth between the mighty." Both quotations seem to approve of suchlotteries.
  • Leviticus19:26: "Do not practise divination." - pointing in the oppositedirection. (Note: Although lots can be cast with the intention ofdivining, that is not the only purpose for casting lots. They can justas easily be employed for randomizing decisions in the name of fairnessas noted at the top of this page, thereby disqualifying the termdivination in those contexts. Moreover, the word choices of translatorshave no bearing on the original meaning of foreign texts, and to saythat the two Hebrew concepts behind these English words are equivalentis inaccurate. The Hebrew word translated as divination, nachash, is the same word as serpent and means literally to hiss when used as a verb. The idea of divination, or fortune-telling, is conveyed through association with the breath [fig. spirit] of a serpent [fig. deceiver] and implicitly declares diviners as con artists. However, the Hebrew word for lot-casting, gowral, merely means to assign portions, or allotments, and so disqualifies the verses above regarding lot-casting as categorical divination.)
In the New Testament, one notable example of casting lots is the soldiers who cast lots for Jesus' clothes (John 19:24) as he was dying on the cross. In this case, the casting of lots was implicitly looked down upon by the biblical authors.[[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipediaiting_sources]citation needed[/url]] This, however, does not appear to be the case in the Acts of the Apostles, where the eleven remaining apostles draw lots to determine whether Matthias or Barsabas (surnamed Justus) would be chosen to replace Judas.
In the Book of Mormon, the sons of Lehi cast lots in the First Book of Nephito determine who will obtain the plates of brass, a record containingthe Israelite scriptures, from the merchant Laban. Laman is selected torepresent the brothers by this method, but he fails to do so and barelyescapes with his life (the brothers successfully retrieve the platesthrough other means, however). [1][2]
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发表于 4-10-2007 08:09 PM | 显示全部楼层

回复 #31 kamwah 的帖子

有华文的解释吗?
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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2007 08:27 PM | 显示全部楼层
没有,不过还是鼓励边查DIC边阅读。。嘻嘻
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 楼主| 发表于 5-11-2007 01:44 AM | 显示全部楼层
馬 太 福 音 26


1 耶 穌 說 完 了 這 一 切 的 話 , 就 對 門 徒 說 :
2 你 們 知 道 , 過 兩 天 是 逾 越 節 , 人 子 將 要 被 交 給 人 , 釘 在 十 字 架 上 。
3 那 時 , 祭 司 長 和 民 間 的 長 老 聚 集 在 大 祭 司 稱 為 該 亞 法 的 院 裡 。
4 大 家 商 議 要 用 詭 計 拿 住 耶 穌 , 殺 他 ,
5 只 是 說 : 當 節 的 日 子 不 可 , 恐 怕 民 間 生 亂 。
6 耶 穌 在 伯 大 尼 長 大 痲 瘋 的 西 門 家 裡 ,
7 有 一 個 女 人 拿 著 一 玉 瓶 極 貴 的 香 膏 來 , 趁 耶 穌 坐 席 的 時 候 , 澆 在 他 的 頭 上 。
8 門 徒 看 見 就 很 不 喜 悅 , 說 : 何 用 這 樣 的 枉 費 呢 !
9 這 香 膏 可 以 賣 許 多 錢 , 賙 濟 窮 人 。
10 耶 穌 看 出 他 們 的 意 思 , 就 說 : 為 甚 麼 難 為 這 女 人 呢 ? 他 在 我 身 上 做 的 是 一 件 美 事 。
11 因 為 常 有 窮 人 和 你 們 同 在 ; 只 是 你 們 不 常 有 我 。
12 他 將 這 香 膏 澆 在 我 身 上 是 為 我 安 葬 做 的 。
13 我 實 在 告 訴 你 們 , 普 天 之 下 , 無 論 在 甚 麼 地 方 傳 這 福 音 , 也 要 述 說 這 女 人 所 行 的 , 作 個 紀 念 。
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发表于 26-9-2022 11:43 AM | 显示全部楼层
这条水(这个家伙的粤语)竟然潜水了10多20年竟然回来,但是看不见TA的回帖了。希望他目前一切安好,昨天才发现的。
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发表于 27-9-2022 12:21 AM | 显示全部楼层
影武者神风 发表于 26-9-2022 11:43 AM
这条水(这个家伙的粤语)竟然潜水了10多20年竟然回来,但是看不见TA的回帖了。希望他目前一切安好,昨天才 ...


為甚麼一則15年前的帖, 突然間會置頂?
應早沉到馬里亞納海溝中哩
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发表于 27-9-2022 01:01 PM 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
beechan 发表于 27-9-2022 12:21 AM
為甚麼一則15年前的帖, 突然間會置頂?
應早沉到馬里亞納海溝中哩 ...

我不知道,我发现到前天另有其人激活此楼。不过我过去的时候回帖不见了,怀疑是N年前的老朋友。

说真的,佳礼华文论坛近期大整顿的时候的基督福音只有一个置顶帖。不过因为大部份的人都没有看置顶帖,所以我偶尔在其他管理的版块提升主题到指定日期。到目前为止,我真的在这里的版块没做过。这个也是其他版主的一贯做法,很普遍而已。
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发表于 10-11-2022 11:04 AM | 显示全部楼层
山鸡老弟 发表于 11-9-2007 11:43 AM
哎呀!我有没有说你或者那个私人教会,我是说我自己的教会啦!

其实很多教会,包括长老会、浸信会等等都 ...

我一直都不赞同使用用完即丢的杯子,就洗一下就好了,会众可以自己洗。用完即丢每一次就是一个cost,这笔钱拿来帮助人不是更符合神的心意吗?更何况还不环保。不过教会可能也有自己的考量,这就不予置评了
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