EADS受促卖掉不被看好的阵风生产商！（EADS同时也持有台风生产商）

cyberjaye

detectivebinbin 发表于 3-9-2013 06:56 PM
不可以這麼說，純屬禮尚往來……畢竟俄系戰機也是法國巴黎航空展的常客，甚至還曾在表演時大方的把戰機摔 ...

英国和美国争相要抢法国唯一的潜在顾客！

印度购法126架阵风合同迟迟未签 英美争相推销            2014年07月01日

中新网7月1日电 据法国媒体报道，法国外交部长洛朗·法比尤斯于当地时间6月30日抵达印度访问。报道称，法方与印方将商议总值150亿美元的126架“阵风”式战机出口合同，是法比尤斯访问印度的重要内容。此外，英美等国官员也将于近期访问印度，同样试图就武器问题会谈。
据报道，法比尤斯将与印度外长斯瓦拉吉和国防兼财政部长贾伊特莱伊举行会晤。法国与印度双方正在展开军售项目谈判是法比尤斯与印度领导人会谈的议题之一。法国与印度目前正在谈判出售潜水艇导弹及126架“阵风”式战机。
此外，英美领导人也将接踵而至访问印度。英国政府一名官员此前透露，国防大臣黑格和财政大臣奥斯本计划7月第二周出访印度。英国参与研制的“台风”式战机在印方招标中败于法国“阵风”，但是印法因价格和合作生产分歧，迟迟没有签订合同，英方因而仍抱希望。
在法英高官访印之间，美国国会资深参议员麦凯恩也将访问这个国家。英国简氏信息集团说，美国去年取代俄罗斯，成为印度武器最大供应国。

http://news.ifeng.com/a/20140701/40968644_0.shtml

cyberjaye

detectivebinbin 发表于 3-9-2013 06:56 PM
不可以這麼說，純屬禮尚往來……畢竟俄系戰機也是法國巴黎航空展的常客，甚至還曾在表演時大方的把戰機摔 ...

现Janata的主席多几天跟国防部长和首相meeting将要求取消阵风合约！

                                              The BJP’s stormy petrel Subramanian Swamy has for long been publicly opposed to the $22 billion Rafale deal, to the point of even suggesting that there was more to the UPA government’s choice than met the eye. In February 2012, The Sunday Times of London quoted Swamy as saying he had initially been told the Eurofighter had won the deal to supply 126 fighter jets but that it all changed after the entry of a veteran French consultant, Bernard Baiocco, an ex-employee of the defence firm Thales, which contributes radar and electronic systems to Rafale. “Baiocco was here (in Delhi) and he went around, and everything changed after that,” Swamy had said, explaining the UPA’s sudden change of heart. With the Modi government poised to indicate its choice, Swamy spoke to Pranay Sharma. Excerpts:
What do you think of the Rafale deal?
It stinks right through. The deal should be frozen or scrapped and negotiations for the MMRCA should begin afresh.
Why do you say this?
There are a number of reasons but foremost Rafale was finalised not through commercial negotiation; it was done by private conversations between Sonia Gandhi, her sisters and Carla Bruni, wife of then French president Nicolas Sarkozy.

Your other objections...

No country outside France has so far bought the Rafale. Some countries had shortlisted it, but rejected it later. We must find out why they did so. We must also know why it is so much more expensive than the other competitors. With the kind of money India has pledged to buy the planes, it can actually buy over the entire company that makes them. Moreover, there are also reports that it is trying to win the contract by giving a subcontract to an influential Indian industrialist. In addition, its performance in terms of fuel consumption etc was much higher and unimpressive during the recent Libyan campaign.
So what should be done about the Rafale deal?
I had written to the UPA defence minister A.K. Antony citing reports and the information on the Sonia Gandhi family’s link with Carla Bruni. Being an honorable man sensitive about his image and reputation, Antony had frozen negotiations with Rafale. I am not sure why Arun Jaitley decided to defreeze it.
The BJP’s in power. Will you ask for Rafale deal to be scrapped?
We have a party meeting coming up in a few days. I will raise the issue not only with defence minister Jaitley but also with PM Narendra Modi. I’ll definitely bring it to their notice.
http://www.outlookindia.com/article/The-Rafale-Deal-Should-Be-Scrapped-And-Renegotiated/291635



           

cyberjaye

印度媒体也大力反对阵风了！

http://www.newindianexpress.com/ ... /article2346825.ece
Why Rafale is a Big Mistake

ByBharat Karnad

Published: 25th July 2014


Why would India buy the Rafale combat aircraft rejected by every other interested country—Brazil, Canada, the Netherlands, Norway, South Korea, Singapore, and even the cash-rich but not particularly discriminating Saudi Arabia and Morocco?
The French foreign minister Laurent Fabius’s one-point agenda when he visited New Delhi was to seal the deal for Rafale, a warplane apparently fitting IAF’s idea of a Medium Multi-role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) in the service’s unique typology, which includes “light” and “heavy” fighter planes as well, used by no other air force in the world. Alas, the first whiff of corruption led the previous defence minister, A K Antony, to seize up and shut shop, stranding the deal at the price negotiation committee stage. It is this stoppage Fabius sought to unclog.
France’s desperation is understandable. Absent the India deal, the Rafale production line will close down, the future of its aerospace sector will dim, and the entire edifice of French industrial R&D sector based on small and medium-sized firms—a version of the enormously successful German “Mittelstand” model—engaged in producing cutting-edge technologies could unravel, and grease France’s slide to second-rate technology power-status.
More immediately, it will lead to a marked increase in the unit cost of the aircraft—reportedly of as much as $5-$10 million dollars to the French Air Force, compelling it to limit the number it inducts. With no international customers and France itself unable to afford the pricey Rafale, the French military aviation industry will be at a crossroads. So, for Paris a lot is at stake and in India the French have found an easy mark, a country willing to pay excessively for an aircraft the IAF can well do without.
Consider the monies at stake. Let’s take the example of Brazil, our BRICS partner. For 36 Rafales the acquisition cost, according to Brazilian media, was $8.2 billion plus an additional $4 billion for short-period maintenance contracts, amounting to nearly $340 million per aircraft in this package and roughly $209 million as the price tag for a single Rafale without maintenance support. Brazil insisted on transfer of technology (ToT) and was told it had to pay a whole lot extra for it, as also for the weapons for its Rafales. But the Brazilian air force had doubts about the quality of the AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar enabling the aircraft to switch quickly from air-to-air to air-to-ground mode in flight, and about the helmet-mounted heads-up-display. Too high a price and too many problems convinced the government of president Dilma Rousseff that the Rafale was not worth the trouble or the money and junked the deal, opting for the Swedish Gripen NG instead.
During the Congress party’s rule the Indian government did not blink at the prospective bill for the Rafale, which more than doubled from $10 billion in 2009 to some $22 billion today, and which figure realistically will exceed $30 billion, or $238 million per aircraft, at a minimum. But India, unbeknownst to most of us, is apparently a terribly rich country, with money to burn! Meanwhile, the United Kingdom, an apparently poorer state or at least one more careful with its money, is blanching at the $190 million price tag for each of the 60 Lockheed F-35Bs (vertical take-off, technologically more complex, variant of the air force model)—a full generation ahead of the Rafale—ordered for the first of the Royal Navy’s Queen Elizabeth-class 65,000-tonne aircraft carriers.
The prohibitive cost of the French aircraft supposedly made finance-cum-defence minister Arun Jaitley apprehensive. He did the right thing, as is rumoured, of revising the order downwards from 126 aircraft to 80 or so Rafales. The IAF headquarters pre-emptively acquiesced in the decision to save the deal. However, if this change was affected in the hope of proportionately reducing the cost, it will be belied. Because in contracts involving high-value combat aircraft, the size of the order does not much affect the unit price, the cost of spares and service support, and of ToT! This is evident from the rough estimates of the per aircraft cost to Brazil of $209 million for 36 Rafales compared with the $238 million for 126 of the same aircraft to India!
Because New Delhi has been inclined to make India a military “great power” on the basis of imported armaments—a policy that’s a boon to supplier states as it generates employment and new technologies in these countries, and sustains their defence industries, a confident French official told me with respect to another deal that “India will pay the price”. Considering the various negatives of the proposed deal and the long-term national interest Jaitley would do well to nix the Rafale transaction altogether.
The bureaucratic interest of the IAF prompts it to exaggerate wrong threats and talk of declining fighter assets. But it will not tell the defence minister about the logistics hell routinely faced by frontline squadrons in operations owing to the mindboggling diversity of combat aircraft in its inventory, a problem only the Rafale acquisition will exacerbate and, hence, about the urgent need to rationalise the force structure, ideally to Su-30s, the indigenous Tejas Mk-1 for short-range air defence, Tejas Mk-II as MMRCA, and the Su-50 PAK FA as fifth-generation fighter. Nor will the department of defence production officials disclose to Jaitley that the ToT provisions in arms contracts are a fraudulent farce because, while the foreign suppliers pocket billions of dollars, no core technologies, such as source codes (millions of lines of software) and flight control laws, are ever transferred. And that the local defence industry monopolised by defence public sector units (DPSUs) is incapable of absorbing and innovating even such technology as is, in fact, relayed to it because it only assembles aircraft from imported kits.
Terminating the Rafale deal will be disruptive but sending the message to the military, the DPSUs, the defence ministry bureaucracy, and foreign companies salivating for rich, one-sided, contracts that the Narendra Modi government is determined to make a new start and conduct defence business differently, is more important.
The author is professor at the Centre for Policy Research and blogs at www.bharatkarnad.com

cyberjaye

CK6919 发表于 30-10-2013 07:11 PM
每次都买要停产的武器

买的机会变小了

最近传出印度又再重新考虑台风了
http://en.ria.ru/business/20140908/192746713/India-Considers-Buying-126-Eurofighters-From-Germany.html

另外，法国最后一分钟反悔不发货（2x 两栖攻击舰) 给俄国，也让印度感觉到法国人不可靠！

梦魇蝴蝶

cyberjaye 发表于 3-10-2014 07:31 AM
买的机会变小了

最近传出印度又再重新考虑台风了

台风跪了

德国发现台风机身尾部有设计缺陷，英国也发现了。
将每年飞行时间从3000小时砍到1500小时。
今年6月一架台风坠毁，飞行员死亡，故障原因不明。。。。。。

http://www.businessinsider.com/a ... 0businessinsider%20(Business%20Insider)&partner=skygrid

cyberjaye

梦魇蝴蝶 发表于 3-10-2014 07:03 PM
台风跪了

德国发现台风机身尾部有设计缺陷，英国也发现了。

哈哈，Jas139租借的出线机会又上升了

cyberjaye

如果问题没法在T3身上解决，新机应该很难卖。
现在有问题的是T1&T2，
T3还没正试量产。

德国台风战机发现制造缺陷 致使机身寿命减半2014-10-04





10月3日报道 埃菲社10月1日报道称，德国国防部9月30日表示，欧洲“台风”战斗机被发现有一处缺陷，虽然不影响战斗机的安全，但将导致其使用寿命减半。

德国国防部在声明中表示，根据飞机生产厂商的指示，目前德国的“台风”战斗机飞行总时长不能超过1500小时，而非最初预计的3000小时。

然而，无论是在执行实际任务还是在飞行训练中，这一点都不会对“台风”战斗机的使用造成危险。

据德国国防部透露，这处缺陷是由参与制造该飞机的英国航空航天系统公司发现的，目前该公司已着手研究如何解决这一问题。

报道称，飞机机身后部的衔接处在质量检测中被发现存在缺陷，原因是接缝的孔眼并没有制作到位。

德国军方最近几周因后勤问题影响行动能力而饱受批评，此前相继有两架飞机在前往伊拉克北部执行运输任务时出现故障。空军109架“台风”战斗机中能够立即起飞的只有42架。

德国《法兰克福汇报》网站9月30日报道说，新技术缺陷令德国联邦国防军苦恼。德国联邦国防军在其网站上公布，德国的欧洲战斗机在质量检查过程中被发现机身后部存在大量孔洞这样的制造缺陷。

作为紧急措施，制造商将该战机的飞行寿命由3000小时减半至1500小时，据说原因是“额外的安全因素”。但是，目前德国联邦国防军离这个值也很远：据“Augen geradeaus”安全政策网站报道，服役最久的这种类型的战斗机，飞行时间只有1000小时。

德国联邦国防军决定暂时不再向生产商购买这种战机。该战机由包括德国空中客车公司和英国航空航天系统公司在内的财团联合制造。德国联邦审计署今年春天估计，德国购买欧洲战斗机的总成本将增加一倍，增加到大约600亿欧元。

http://news.qq.com/a/20141004/012382.htm

alex92

cyberjaye 发表于 4-10-2014 07:31 PM
如果问题没法在T3身上解决，新机应该很难卖。
现在有问题的是T1&T2，
T3还没正试量产。

真是災難性的後果，德國空軍軍力真的直接插水
要換一批戰機可需要筆為數不小的小錢錢啊

cyberjaye

alex92 发表于 4-10-2014 07:37 PM
真是災難性的後果，德國空軍軍力真的直接插水
要換一批戰機可需要筆為數不小的小錢錢啊

减少出巡和寿命减半，还不至于要马上换。
不过，如果T3解决了这个问题的话，反而可能提早获得新合同。

alex92

cyberjaye 发表于 4-10-2014 07:41 PM
减少出巡和寿命减半，还不至于要马上换。
不过，如果T3解决了这个问题的话，反而可能提早获得新合同。 ...

我看到有些媒體寫德國空軍多架颱風趴窩了
不知情報可靠否

cyberjaye

alex92 发表于 4-10-2014 07:45 PM
我看到有些媒體寫德國空軍多架颱風趴窩了
不知情報可靠否

AESA来的及时，德国可以买T3 + AESA了
这将是欧洲最强的战机，战力直迫SU35
台风的AESA比阵风的AESA强了30%，而且台风的RCS比阵风低


Typhoon Gets AESA RADAR

Marhalim Abas November 20, 2014

SHAH ALAM: Eurofighter Typhoon – one of the candidates for the RMAF’s MRCA programme – is finally getting an active electronically scanned (AESA) radar. An AESA radar is one of the main requirements of the MRCA programme.

The Royal Air Force (RAF) is expected to be the first operator to fit the Captor E-Scan AESA radar among the four core nation of the Eurofighter. However no definitive deadline had been set for the fitment of the radar.

Typhoon fitted with the AESA radar

It must be noted that the other three candidates for the MRCA programme – namely the Super Hornet, Rafale and the Gripen (the NG version) are all AESA compliant. The Super Hornet is the only one which has seen action with the radar of course.

E-Scan Graphic

According to Defense News: “Aside from the four Eurofighter core partners, Typhoon is operated by Austria and Saudi Arabia and has been purchased by Oman. Potential customers, aside from a possible top-up order from the Saudis, include Bahrain, Qatar, Malaysia, Indonesia and Kuwait.”

cyberjaye

@miyaTan

印度传来对俄国的利好消息！
可能不买阵风，增加生产俄国的SU30MKI~~

http://www.malaysiandefence.com/?p=5517


India’s Rafale Deal in Trouble?

Marhalim Abas January 2, 2015 Malaysia - RMAF

SHAH ALAM: India’s media is reporting that the government may opt for more locally built Sukhoi Su-30MKIs if the deal to build Dassault Rafale locally falls through.

Of interest to Malaysia, is the fact that the India locally built MKIs reportedly cost half of the projected price of the Rafale. The cost for the MKIs is quoted at Rs 358 crore (my calculations is US$56 million/RM196 million). If that is correct the Rafale should cost around RM392 million per plane!

If indeed India decide to forego the Rafale deal it may have repercussions for its future potential as this means that the aircraft has failed to gain any export customer. India and UAE are its biggest potential at the moment.

From Business Standard.
Rafale in storm clouds, Parrikar says IAF can make do with Sukhoi-30s

For the first time since January 31, 2012, when the French Rafale fighter was chosen as the future medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for the Indian Air Force (IAF), it has been officially admitted that there are serious problems in negotiating the purchase with the French vendor, Dassault.

Speaking to the media on Tuesday evening, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said there were “complications” in the negotiations, already on for almost three years, with the French side reluctant to meet commitments that IAF had specified in the tender. Parrikar did not reveal details.

Business Standard had reported on Dassault’s unwillingness to assume responsibility for the production of Rafales by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, which the tender mandated. HAL is to build 108 Rafales in India with technology transferred from Dassault and its sub-vendors.

— Malaysian Defence

Eurofighter Typhoon fitted with the Storm Shadow cruise missile for testing. Eurofighter picture.
Eurofighter Typhoon fitted with the Storm Shadow cruise missile for testing. Eurofighter picture.
In the meantime, its Typhoon that is also hogging the latest news update. Within a space of two weeks, we were told that the Typhoon had successfully conducted trials involving two weapon types, the Meteor and the Storm Shadow.

Typhoon with Meteor. Eurofighter picture.
Typhoon with Meteor. Eurofighter picture.
The Meteor is an advanced BVR missile while the Storm Shadow is a long range precision air to ground weapon.Both missiles are expected to be in service on the Typhoon by 2017, a year before the Brimstone air to ground missiles is expected to be in service with the RAF Typhoon fleet.

Typhoon in a multi role configuration with Brimstone missiles and Paveway IV LGBs. Eurofighter picture.
Typhoon in a multi role configuration with Brimstone missiles and Paveway IV LGBs. Eurofighter picture.
Integration tests of the Brimstone took place recently in the UK. RAF Typhoon fleet also demonstrated recently it could carry 6 Paveway IV LGBs in a single sortie.

It must be noted that the RAF configuration of the Typhoon is the version being marketed to Malaysia for the MRCA programme. Unfortunately we are no closer to a decision on the programme today when it was first announced three or four years ago.

— Malaysian Defence

梦魇蝴蝶

阵风太贵，到现在一架都没卖出去过。

miyaTan

cyberjaye 发表于 2-1-2015 10:37 PM
@miyaTan

印度传来对俄国的利好消息！

哈哈哈，三哥不差钱呀！ 我想可能法国佬没有给三哥折扣 ！！！！也不怕俄大哥在坑他一回？？只能说俄罗斯笑了.....

miyaTan

梦魇蝴蝶 发表于 3-1-2015 12:32 AM
阵风太贵，到现在一架都没卖出去过。

法国想是不是我的discount不给力？

cyberjaye

miyaTan 发表于 3-1-2015 01:00 AM
法国想是不是我的discount不给力？

文章说法国坑三哥，单价从6500万美元提高到1.2亿美元


阵风战机从120亿暴涨到300亿，印或转而购买俄制苏-30MKI战机

据印度和俄罗斯媒体披露，印度国防部可能放弃向法国采购126架“阵风”战机的计划，转而购买俄制苏-30MKI战机。据称，印度之所以有这方面考虑，除了两种战机存在性能差异外，还对法国的商业信誉产生怀疑。此前，法国拒绝交付俄罗斯购买的西北风级两栖舰，将舰船交付与乌克兰危机挂钩。

法国企业出尔反尔

据印度《力量》杂志报道，印度国防部消息人士1月中旬透露，向法国采购126架“阵风”战机的计划可能中止，转而购买俄制苏-30MKI战机。据介绍，法国达索公司2012年在印度举办的竞标活动中击败美国和俄罗斯的企业，获得向印度出口126架“阵风”战斗机的机会。当时，印度要求全部126 架中的18架由法国生产，其余108架由法国转让技术，由印度企业生产。然而，在随后的“独家谈判”中，法国方面不仅拒绝保证实现“生产本土化”，而且大幅提高“阵风”的价格。2014年1月，达索公司将“阵风”战斗机的单价从6500万美元提高到1.2亿美元，这意味着印度采购126架“阵风”的费用将从最初预计的120亿美元上涨到280-300亿美元。

最近，印度国防部长帕里卡尔在新闻发布会上表示，“我们与法国方面的谈判十分困难，对方无法保证让印度公司自行生产108架‘阵风’战斗机”。他还表示，如果“阵风”被放弃，印度国产的苏-30MKI同样能够满足印度空军的需求。

印度害怕“过度依赖”

俄罗斯《观点报》认为，法国拒绝转让核心技术，只是印度“打退堂鼓”的原因之一，更重要的原因是法国在军售政策上的“不靠谱”。俄战略与技术分析中心主任鲁斯兰·普霍夫表示，法国突然阻止俄罗斯接收已交付全款的西北风级两栖舰，让印度感到“刺骨寒意”。从印度的角度看，如果印度与他国发生战争，法国可能会拒绝向印度提供武器零部件，这将是最令人担忧的“噩梦”。普霍夫乐观地表示，从武器来源的稳定性看，印度更欣赏俄罗斯，后者即便在印度1998 年因进行核试验而遭到许多国家反对的情况下，仍继续向印度出售先进军事装备。

俄罗斯《莫斯科共青团员报》分析，印度既想引进先进战斗机维持和提升空军的作战能力，又害怕过度依赖某个国家的武器供应而受制于人。事实上，美国就曾多次制裁印度，如果印度与美国的“非北约盟国”巴基斯坦爆发冲突，作为美国盟友的法国就有可能因为“非商业性原因”，停止向印度交付战斗机，甚至拒绝为已经交付的战斗机提供零部件和维护服务。在此情况下，印度将难以维持必要的军事能力。


俄军事专家季莫什科表示，法国“阵风”是中型多用途战机，作战半径仅1800千米;而苏-30MKI是重型多用途战机，作战半径达2300千米。印度军事专家普利·文萨尼表示，无论是单价，还是性能指标，苏-30MKI都比“阵风”更有优势，且印度空军对苏-30MKI已相当熟悉，后勤维护和人员培训都驾轻就熟，因此放弃“阵风”很可能是明智之举。不过，印度空军发言人并未证实有关“放弃购买法国战机”的报道。另据法国《每日航宇》报道，为了挽救这项对印军售合同，法国计划向印度派出代表团，而印方将于今年4月做出最终决定。

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miyaTan

cyberjaye 发表于 23-1-2015 01:39 PM
文章说法国坑三哥，单价从6500万美元提高到1.2亿美元   

哈哈哈，我也是刚看到，法国人以为自己是谁呀？能吃定三哥？？？有没有毛熊的本事先？？？法国就是作........

确实好笑的是，三哥整天就是被人宰的角色，好惨