English : 当第一个字是动词时？

hey_friends

当第一个字是动词时，我们要用present tense,还是continous tense呢？

for example:

1) Inter face a team that have reached two of the last three finals,winning the title in 2005 before losing to AC Milan last may. (frm newpaper)

2) Inter face a team that have reached two of the last three finals,won the title in 2005 before losing to         AC Milan last may. (my suggestion)

1) Inter face a team that have reached two of the last three finals,win the title in 2005 before losing to AC Milan last may.(my sugguestion)

1),2) and 3)哪一个对呢?
如果给我的话,应该是用won嘛，不是吗？因为已经过去了嘛！有谁会呢？可以一个一个解释吗？因为我真得很不明白。在这里谢了！

darksider

IMHO,all the sentences including the one quote from newspaper are wrongly written.
They have interpretation and grammatical mistakes.

A team (of players) is supposed to be singular since article A is used,so a singular subject needs a singular verb,thus has must be used instead of have.

have you mentioned that the meaning has been interrupted after the comma?It is like saying that Ac Milan has won Ac Milan itself.

And i want to clarify that winning there is not a verb there,it is a gerund.(The clause is called adverbial clause)

Alright,due to time constraint,i straight correct the sentence by writing my own.

For answers 1 and this is the most appropriate sentence (the tense here is future simple )

Having won the title in 2005 before losing to AC Milan,Inter Milan is once again going to face the team that has reached two of the previous three finals in Champions League.
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For Answer 2 ( the tense here is actually past simple since you want to use won)

Inter Milan [which will confront AC Milan in the fifth round],won(verb) the title in 2005 before losing to the team that has reached two of the previous three finals in Champions League.  

In this sentence,you may ignore the phrase that is enclosed,it just adds additional information and the "won" here is a verb. Facing AC Milan in next tie will be a subordinate clause if you were to write like this.

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Correction of 3 (The tense here is present simple as it shows fact,the fact that Inter win the title in 2005)

Inter Milan which will play AC Milan that has reached two of three previous finals,win the title in 2005 before losing to the team.

hey_friends

原帖由 darksider 于 26-2-2008 12:03 AM 发表
IMHO,all the sentences including the one quote from newspaper are wrongly written.
They have interpretation and grammatical mistakes.

A team (of players) is supposed to be singular since article A ...

Having won the title in 2005 before losing to AC Milan,Inter Milan is once again going to face the team that has reached two of the previous three finals in Champions League.

why "Having" must be used but not have?could you explain?tq,i am very confusing

hey_friends

原帖由 hey_friends 于 26-2-2008 05:15 PM 发表


Having won the title in 2005 before losing to AC Milan,Inter Milan is once again going to face the team that has reached two of the previous three finals in Champions League.

why "Having" must  ...

Having won the title in 2005 before losing to AC Milan,Inter Milan is once again going to face the team that has reached two of the previous three finals in Champions League.

and this question again.then how about "has",y not using "having" instead of has?boz "has reached two of the previous three finals in Chapmpions League" is supposed to consider as new sentense,right?

hey_friends

what is subordinate clause?wat is it different btw adverbial clause (gerund) and subordinate clause?

darksider

原帖由 hey_friends 于 26-2-2008 05:34 PM 发表
what is subordinate clause?wat is it different btw adverbial clause (gerund) and subordinate clause?

Before knowing what is subordinate clause,you must learn main clause first.

Combination of tenses

Past simple and past continuous
Yesterday when i was cycling to school,i saw an accident.
             Subordinate clause                           Main clause

When you tell people the clause "yesterday when i was cycling to school",people wont understand you because the clause is not complete.

Main clause can stand by itself whereas subordinate clause cannot.

So do you understand what is subordinate clause now?
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Adverbial clause is a clause that functions as an adverb.

Gerund is a type of noun,it is also called verbal noun(form from verb,eg swimming,playing,looking )

Alright,i retract what i have said about adverbial clause because i was a little bit confused just now.


Adverbial clause
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverbial_clause

Everything about gerund
www.answers.com/topic/gerund

darksider

原帖由 hey_friends 于 26-2-2008 05:27 PM 发表


Having won the title in 2005 before losing to AC Milan,Inter Milan is once again going to face the team that has reached two of the previous three finals in Champions League.

and this question  ...

"Having won the title in 2005 before losing to AC milan " is a subordinate clause,and the rest is main clause.

Without the subordinate clause,main clause can stand by itself too.

The main clause is written in future simple (is going to).

Why did i use "has reached"?
Function of present perfect-to show completed action.(AC milan has won two of previous three finals)

Sry to make you confuse.

darksider

原帖由 hey_friends 于 26-2-2008 05:15 PM 发表


Having won the title in 2005 before losing to AC Milan,Inter Milan is once again going to face the team that has reached two of the previous three finals in Champions League.

why "Having" must  ...

Well ,if you want to use have instead of having,it is wrong because there is no subject in the subordinate clause(words before the comma).

darksider

I am looking forward to the party(noun).

I am looking forward to playing(noun) games.

I am looking forward to helping(noun) you.

                                                                                            (no verb but only nouns)
Today i have come across my old friends,my classmates in secondary school.
                                                                                            (no verb but only nouns)
Today i have come across my old friends,gossipping with them for many hours.


I need you,Apollo(n).
I need you,helping(n) me in the case.


Hope you get what i mean.
I have been trying to find teaching material regarding the usage of gerund ,but i haven't found any.

darksider

Dictionary: Which
The one or ones previously mentioned or implied, specifically:
Used as a relative pronoun in a clause that provides additional information about the antecedent: my house, which is small and old.
Used as a relative pronoun preceded by that or a preposition in a clause that defines or restricts the antecedent: that which he needed; the subject on which she spoke.
Used instead of that as a relative pronoun in a clause that defines or restricts the antecedent: The movie which was shown later was better.

USAGE NOTE   The relative pronoun which is sometimes used to refer to an entire sentence or clause, rather than a noun or noun phrase, as in She ignored him, which proved to be unwise. They swept the council elections, which could never have happened under the old rules. While these examples are unexceptionable, using which in this way sometimes produces an ambiguous sentence. Thus It emerged that Edna made the complaint, which surprised everybody leaves unclear whether it was surprising that a complaint was made or that Edna made it. The ambiguity can be avoided with paraphrases such as It emerged that the complaint was made by Edna, a revelation that surprised everybody. • Which may be used to refer to an entire sentence or clause only when it is preceded by that sentence or clause. When the referent follows, what should be used, particularly in formal style: Still, he has not said he will withdraw, which is more surprising but Still, what (not which) is more surprising, he has not said he will withdraw. See Usage Notes at that, what, whose.

Source: http://www.answers.com

darksider

okay,i have read again and found the first one which you copied from newspaper is true.

The rest is wrong because there is no subject for it.
A subject cannot take 2 verbs without conjunction.

         (v)                                                                                      (v)
Inter face a team that have reached two of the last three finals,won the title in 2005 before losing to         AC Milan last may. (my suggestion)

Study "Which" and "That" which act as relative nouns first.

Correct one:
Inter which face a team that has reached two of the last three finals,won the tittle in 2005 before losing to AC milan last may.

hey_friends

原帖由 darksider 于 26-2-2008 07:37 PM 发表


Before knowing what is subordinate clause,you must learn main clause first.

Combination of tenses

Past simple and past continuous
Yesterday when i was cycling to school,i saw an accident.
...

i am understood what u were saying......tq

hey_friends

原帖由 darksider 于 26-2-2008 07:56 PM 发表
okay,i have read again and found the first one which you copied from newspaper is true.

The rest is wrong because there is no subject for it.
A subject cannot take 2 verbs without conjunction.

...

so for my understanding.....

              (v)                                                                      (so this "win" can not be original,right?)
1) Inter face a team that have reached two of the last three finals,winning the title in 2005 before losing to AC Milan last may. (frm newpaper)

so if right,i would like to ask that we using "winning" boz of not allowing 2 verbs in a sentence,so this "winning" is meaning same with "face" or considered continous tense?

so means that answer 2) is wrong boz alr have 2 verbs in same sentence:
2)Inter face a team that have reached two of the last three finals,won the title in 2005 before losing to AC Milan last may

so if we wana put it correct,we should put
"Inter which face a team that have reached two of the last three finals,won the title in 2005 before losing to AC Milan last may ",

"which face a team that have reached two of the last three finals" is subordinate clause,right?
so "won" become 1st verb occur in this sentence,right?

am i right?

so if that is the case,y answer 3) was wrong?
there r two verbs in answer 3),but both two r original one,so it should be correct ,right?

hey_friends

原帖由 darksider 于 26-2-2008 07:40 PM 发表


"Having won the title in 2005 before losing to AC milan " is a subordinate clause,and the rest is main clause.

Without the subordinate clause,main clause can stand by itself too.

The main cl ...

so "Having won" and "has reached" r the same,rite?both r present perfect rite?

we used "having" instead of have boz of there is not subject in the sentense?

hey_friends

原帖由 darksider 于 26-2-2008 07:40 PM 发表


"Having won the title in 2005 before losing to AC milan " is a subordinate clause,and the rest is main clause.

Without the subordinate clause,main clause can stand by itself too.

The main cl ...

so "Having won" and "has reached" r the same,rite?both r present perfect rite?

we used "having" instead of have boz of there is not subject in the sentense?

hey_friends

原帖由 darksider 于 26-2-2008 07:40 PM 发表


"Having won the title in 2005 before losing to AC milan " is a subordinate clause,and the rest is main clause.

Without the subordinate clause,main clause can stand by itself too.

The main cl ...

so "Having won" and "has reached" r the same,rite?both r present perfect rite?

we used "having" instead of have boz of there is not subject in the sentense?

darksider

原帖由 hey_friends 于 27-2-2008 02:15 PM 发表

so for my understanding.....

              (v)                                                                      (so this "win" can not be original,right?)
1) Inter face a team that have reac ...

For the first one,the winning is a gerund since there is no object or verb precededing it.
It is not a continuous tense or any others,it is merely a part of sentence which gives more information of the subject.

For the second one,you are right,you should use relative nouns like that and which to make it grammatically right.
Without relative nouns,your sentence is a blunder because 2 verbs are there without any conjunction.(in case you can use "and" to make them sound correct,but it is wrong in term of tenses(present simple and past simple are used together in a sentence?)

And yes,that is the subordinate clause and won is the main verb.

Inter face a team that have reached two of the last three finals,win the title in 2005 before losing to AC Milan last may.(my sugguestion)

This is wrong because win should be replaced by winning.

For the having won question,i give you an example,hoping you comprehend it.

According(gerund) to the report,I strongly believe that people is innocent.
Having(geruned) done(past participle) my assignment,i went to clubbing.

hey_friends

原帖由 darksider 于 28-2-2008 12:06 AM 发表


For the first one,the winning is a gerund since there is no object or verb precededing it.
It is not a continuous tense or any others,it is merely a part of sentence which gives more information  ...

tq for yr help,very very very tq

hey_friends

National men’s doubles specialist Tan Boon Heong can’t stand losing to the same opponents twice.

darksider,for above sentence."losing to the same oppoents twice" is a noun o only "losing" is a noun and "to the same opponents twice" is other since "losing" is a gerund?

hey_friends

I detest going to the cinema.

going = gerund,so "going to the cinema" is called a noun o only "going" is a noun and "to the cinema" is other?